Productivity Pulse Episode 7 - ReThink Academy

What separates guesswork from actual, sustainable efficiency? Professional training.

In this episode, our resident experts—Sue, Simon & James—are joined by special guest Phil to break down why credible productivity work must start with the right foundations.

 They dive into how the ReThink Academy is shaping the next generation of industry experts through our four core courses:

• Introduction to Productivity – Building the baseline
• Work Study – Measuring the essentials
• Method Study – Designing smarter workflows
• Labour Modelling – Optimising your workforce

Ready to level up your team's capabilities? 

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Phil

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to the Productivity Pulse, our monthly catch-up with Sue and James. And I am delighted today that we are joined by a longstanding friend and colleague of ours, Phil Chatterley. Hi, Phil.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Hi, Simon. Thank you for inviting me on the pod.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

No, more than welcome. So Phil Phil's worked with us for a number of years, he's an avid Port Vale fan and also our tutor at the Rethink Academy. And today we're going to be talking through the courses, what they mean, why they're useful, and then obviously, as ever will provide links for you to go on the sites and have a browse and book the courses that you see fit. James is going to lead us through the conversation. So over to you, James.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Yeah, Simon, I mean, one of the things you introduced as part of Phil's role was a tutor. Phil,

Why Rethink Built Its Own Training

SPEAKER_01 0:50

you've been running a work study course for Rethink Productivity for a number of years now. Like, how did that come about and how long have you been doing it?

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Well, we we around about 2018-2019, we we were reaching a perfect store within Rethink. In a in a whereas we were using self-employed contracted industrial engineers to go out and do our work measurement. Simon and I long recognized that that pool was going to diminish. Basically, because all of those guys, they were older. I mean, they were 60s plus. So if we were to grow the business, we certainly realized that we were going to need some new people. And when we get them new people, how do we train them? So we were looking around, James, we were so who's doing the training? What's it like? You know? So we went through that period in and around 2019, a little bit running into a little bit of COVID, where we employed some people full-time at Rethink to be a productivity analyst. And the training, we we we used the third-party consultancy. It was okay, worked okay, but there was one thing that we were realizing that when our people were coming out of that course, they weren't client ready. They just weren't. So that gave us a bit of an opportunity for part of the pun to rethink it, to get our heads around it. So in 2021, or there or thereabouts, we decided it'd be a good idea to train our own people for a myriad of reasons, really. We took the time then to restructure the course. So the course in its present day, it didn't look like this way back then. Way back then, it was fundamentally about training somebody to do a professional time study, which is absolutely fine, and to do some rated activity sampling, basically. The films were old. Some of the films, James, were Tilbury dock workers in the late 40s. Exactly. So can you imagine trying to do time study observations and ratings on films that were that old? They were jumpy, sound was intermittent. So around that period, we thought to ourselves, the old course, the old so week one of the old course, I've got to share it. Week week one of the old course, you do a couple of hours on the history of work study, which is fine. We were the fathers of time study. And we did FW Taylor and all of those people and hunky dory. We do a couple of hours then on a little bit more of time study. So we're introducing people into elements, I'm guessing. Then we'd stop. We'd have a break, and then it will go into activity sampling. We do a little bit more activity sampling on day two with some PMTS, which is MTM as we know it. And it was just all piddled all over the place. And I was running a course at the time. I sort of said, wouldn't it be a good idea if we did a whole week on time study and rating? Get that done as a module, and then move into a second week. And their commentary coming back was, well, we like to give people, we like to keep them on the toes. We like, we like to get them thinking. So anyway, what we did was we got our head around it. I was working in Romania at the time on project, and I remember Simon and Sue invited me to sort of restructure that course. Take the slides out that are not applicable. We'll go away

Fixing Outdated Work Study Teaching

SPEAKER_03 4:35

and work on some new videos, and it'll all come together. So the course and it's the course as it is now, week one, is predominantly time study with some role study and ratings. So it's practice, practice, practice. So with the ratings, we don't use old films, we use our new pace rating course, our new, our pace rating course at Rethink that's been around since 2021. Yeah. So we use that. So the course looks like week one time study, with role study. You finish with a practical exam on the Friday. And what it looks like is typically day one, we'll go through the history of time study. There are some rules, as we all know, when we're observing people. And one of the interesting things about getting attendees on the course is when we say things to them like, the only people we observe during professional work management are qualified operators. And they're like, Well, what's that? Well, it's people who've got the skills, training, and experience to do the job. You never ever bowl up and time somebody that hasn't been trained, doesn't know the job, a brand new, and all this kind of thing. So that first couple that first day, a bit of explaining about what an element is, basic stuff, what an element is, breakpoints, lots and lots of rating practice. We then, by the end of the middle of day two, we get a new video, a modern video. The attendees then break that video down as we would into bite-sized chunks. They look at the task, they break it down into bite-sized chunks called elements. They then put it on an old-fashioned time study sheet and they time it in the traditional way. Even using things like, and we can chat and or giggle about it now, things as basic as time elapse before study, time elapse after study, study error. People who come through our course get to learn how to do a professional time study. You cannot do a proper professional time study without knowing what these things are. And you'll be surprised when people come onto the course, they've never heard of them. So, what what type of people is the course for then? Who's coming on

Week One Time Study And Rating

SPEAKER_03 7:10

the course? Who gets the most value from it? You know, it's super interesting. I always think, James, it's professionals who want to improve productivity.

unknown 7:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

And it's a bit of a one-line uh response to that, isn't it? But truly, in my heart, if you're serious about improving productivity, how do you do that without having the techniques in your armory to go away and measure work? And do it professionally, James. And what I mean by professionally is where at the end of the timing you can talk through your time study and sell your standard minute value, your time. You can sell that to a management team, you can sell it to the unions, and you can sell it to the operators. So the people who come on the course are usually super serious about improving productivity. They've had a bit of a go, which can range from anything, unfortunately, from sort of a cigarette packet approach to I used to do that job, so I know how long it takes to do it, mate. And you can't tell me any different. So we get some of those people on. But when you sit them down and explain about how you improve productivity and the certain rules that you have to go through, qualified operators, etc., you've got to break the task down into bite-sized chunks. These chunks are called elements. And what splits an element up for another one is breakpoints. And I'll say, Well, why do we have to do that? And I'll say, Well, the International Labour Organization, they say that a person, an operator, can change their speed or effectiveness every 30 seconds. So we need to do some ratings here. We need to be rating often during this task. And what they do get, James, early is if you can break a task down into bite-sized chunks and time it, we can do some business process re-engineering on that task. We can do some effective benchmarking on that task because we've broken the task down into those little bite-sized chunks.

(Cont.) Week One Time Study And Rating

SPEAKER_01 9:26

And it sounds, it sounds, Phil, like it's quite practical. This isn't kind of, I mean, you might you can do it online or face-to-face, I I I think, but I mean you're not just sitting there watching and taking notes. It sounds like there's a lot of practical application as part of this.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Yeah, I think we we on this course we haven't stripped back a lot of theory. We haven't because we don't need to. We've just restructured when we communicate it with the attendees. So the first couple of hours has got to be about what is what is work measurement. It's an internationally recognised technique. It's been used all over the world for 150 years. These are the fathers of time study. And then the people who attend the course, they all want to improve productivity, but some could have been store managers who've been promoted from within. Or there could be people who have responsibility for the workforce management model. They just don't know where these times come from. So when we go through that context on sort of day one and day two, yeah, it works works really well. There's not a lot of theory, there's a lot of doing. So with rating, ratings is all about practice. And as we all know on the pod here, ratings is subjective, right? So if the course is face to face, and I guess half of our courses are face to face, I take them out of the meeting room. We'll go and find somewhere that could overlook a street or could overlook a department, and I'll look up and say, right, the past two hours we've been talking about ratings. We know what does somebody give me a definition of a hundred rating. And by that point, they will say it's somebody, a qualified operator, who's working in the Brisk and business like way. And I'll say, perfect. Right. What does that person in a red t-shirt? Everybody give me their rating. Get rated in your head. I'll write, I'll I'll go first because everybody gets embarrassed when you start talking about rating. I'll put my rating up, and then you tell me what you've rated at, and then we'll have a chat. So it brings that brings it alive, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, it does. I mean, it sounds uh miles away from kind of the the classroom training you would get in uh in other places. And I mean, you must have you must have seen some strange things when you've been leading the course over these five years, you've been going out and actually practically applying these things. Is there anything that you you remember as a particular standout moment when you've been delivering it?

SPEAKER_03 12:05

You know what um I I I think what the game changer is with

Week Two Techniques And Real Site Work

SPEAKER_03 12:10

with our course, and I would say of course,

Who The Course Helps Most

SPEAKER_03 12:12

but I mean I've been an integral part of building it, and and and the feedback is usually this. On the second week, so the first week we've done time study and we've done a lot of practicing ratings. They would have done a time study exam stroke exercise on Friday morning, and they would have finished their rating clinic by Friday afternoon of the first week. The second week, we teach other techniques. So for two days, we will teach rated activity sampling. They love that, and there's a reason why a rated activity slot, a rated activity slot, a rated activity sampling slide is always the first slide on an executive summary, isn't it? Because it shows us where time's been spent, ultimately, where time's been lost. So these people realize not only can they go and time stuff, they can, by using rated activity sampling, find out how much time is value added, how much time is essential non-value added, and how much time is VA. They love that. We then talk about MTM and PMTS, which is predetermined work. And we've got a couple of modern films that our partners at the Anti M Association have given to us, which is absolutely great. I do apologize for my time to get that film. He loves it, doesn't he? We do some talking about check studies and self-recording. When that's done on the Tuesday of the second week, we are then ready, James, to take the attendees out on site to do some actual time study and to do some actual activity sampling. And what they have to do, I'm there, of course, I supervise them and help them. What they have to do is go and speak to real operators. Imagine that, they've never done it. They've never done it. We do some role play on what to say and what not to say, but all of a sudden, they're with somebody, and it's and it's like they know they've got to introduce themselves, they know they've got to explain what they are doing, and then they have to observe that task and break it down into these bite-sized chunks. They have to do the same for activity sampling. So on activity sampling, you've got to find four things basically my operators, the area, what we're counting, and the other count. Do apologize, but the other count. They have to go away and get that. When they've got that and come back, we put it into re-time. So on the Thursday of the second week, for the first proper time, our attendees will be out, often in front of the public, doing work study using retime.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

And I think that's a really important point. I mean, you mentioned earlier that some of the training is done kind of the old-fashioned way on

Why The Retime App Matters

SPEAKER_01 15:10

a time study sheet. But in 2026, of course, work study is done on apps, or at least our analysts or use apps. So everyone's trained to use the Retime app as well, which is a software we've developed to make it easy to do work study. So it's not just that you're being trained how to do this thing as as well, you're also being trained how to record it in a modern app as well.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

You know, it it's um I'm a I'm a traditionalist as far as work study goes. So I'm very happy to do old-fashioned time studies with a pen and paper. Week one, they don't they don't use a pen and paper, they use a centi mini tab. But effectively, they've got to do it in the old-fashioned way, James. Yeah. They realize how long it takes to normalize from observed time to basic time to manually add the frequencies up, to manually add the rest of the relaxation allowances and contingency allowances, then to get a value. Once they've been into an app like ours, and they realize how easy it is when the operator's in front of them. So when you're using our app, you spend more time observing than you do looking down at that tablet. Very important. They can't believe they haven't got to do start time, finish time, test tees. They'll have no study error. So it's all about observing the operator. So when I say to them at the end of Thursday of the second week, right? We've been on site for two days now. You've broken these tasks down into bite-sized chunks. You've also gone and done some rated activity sampling. Tomorrow morning, I'm going to present your work back to you like we do on Rethink. At Rethink. And they are, what? All of that. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, I'll have it in about half an hour, type of thing. So they absolutely see the old way of doing it and the benefit of using an app like ours.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Yeah. That's great. And these courses run a few times a year. We can run them bespoke for organizations if they have enough attendees, but we also run public courses that you can sign on to. Where should you go if you want more information to about the course? Yeah, I'd go to rethinkproductivity.co.uk. I think the rethinkproductivity.co.uk would I mean we could talk about this all day because I think, you know, there's been five years of love and attention that have gone into this course, and I know you're you're passionate about delivering it, but I just wanted to bring Sue in quickly because we have launched some new courses alongside the work study course, haven't we, Sue? Why have we why have we done that? Can you tell us a little bit more about those?

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Yes, we've done

New Courses And Why They Exist

SPEAKER_00 17:56

that because obviously we've worked with a lot of clients to give them information that we've measured and workload models. And what we want to do is help people to be able to use that data better and basically share some of our skills and experience with other people. Because, you know, we're so passionate about productivity and want everybody else to be able to do it as well as we do.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah, because I mean this the the work study course started out as something that would help us train our analysts but became something much, much bigger quickly because it's about training the next generation of of analysts of industrial engineers and and making sure that a really important discipline is is taught well and people have the opportunity to make their businesses more productive. So kind of what's the what's the first new course we've launched? So you can you tell us a little bit about the introduction to productivity course?

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Yeah, the introduction to productivity course is really aimed at people that perhaps

Introduction To Productivity Explained

SPEAKER_00 18:56

move into a productivity team or continuous improvement team for the first time. So for them, a lot of the the words that are used around it are kind of jargon rather than something that means a lot to them. But actually, it'll really teach them good ways of looking to find opportunities for improving productivity, how to use work study and how to interpret data, as well as some of the things around how you'd implement change and that sort of thing. So the perfect if somebody's new into that team, I'd also say if somebody's within that team is looking for a bit of a refresher, so they're looking to find some new ideas, some new ways of looking at things, then again, great to do that. And as with the other course that Phil's talked about, we can do this either with a mix of people, so you get to hear how different organizations approach similar work, or we can do it as a team building exercise. So, you know, if there's a group of people that want to start thinking about things in a different way, then again we can go in and do that just as a group within their business.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

That's great. And it it really matters for these organizations and the attendees, because I mean I know kind of talking to clients, the experience of working in a in a productivity or a central operations team is often often quite a confusing one to begin with. You're kind of dropped into situations and asked to improve productivity, and really, you know, it's it's a lot more than about just kind of looking at some process maps and and changing some some process flows around. There's you know work, work, study and work measurement is obviously a big part of it, but there's all the kind of engagement that goes alongside it and the and the launching of different initiatives. I mean, there's there's a lot to cover and a lot to learn.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

There is, and it's all based on a practical experience of you know, people in our team who've been there and and done that job. And it's it's very much built around people getting their hands on things, case studies, working through things. So it's not a theoretical course, it's very much designed about you've got a job to do in your you know, day-to-day job. These are some really good tools that you can apply to help you do that more effectively.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Fantastic. And that's that that's the benefit of courses being designed by real practitioners. Kind of they're not theoretical, they're they're really practical. And kind of one of the one of the tools that we touch on in the introduction to productivity course is method study. But we've also launched a course on method study, which Phil, you're um you're running as well. Because tell the listener if they're not if if they're not sure what what what is method

Method Study And Selling Change

SPEAKER_01 21:34

study.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

The method study it's it's a big subject, if I'm honest. And I think for our listeners, back in the day it would be really quite common to have a department of work study people like us, and a smaller department of just method study people. So they were side by side. And Method study has been taught in industrial engineering forever, but it seemed to have slipped off the radar. And I remember Satan and I talking about it, wow, 2015, 2016. What is this method study? What's it all about? Who'll benefit from it? Anyway. Since 2022, 2023, we get people coming onto the course, they learn how to do a professional time study. They learn how to do rated activity sampling. If they would have been employed by Rethink, we'd have put them through some uh PMTS stuff, so they would have been trained in MTM base, MTM UAS, SOL Logistics, and that kind of thing. But with method study, method study is a standalone technique used to improve productivity. It's all about working smarter. And it's about getting the most of what you've got. Now there's a repeatable formula that you follow. And some people would have heard it. It's called SRED SIM. It's a bit strange. And the and the S has select the task to be observed, the R is recording it. The E is the critical examination of that task. The D is developing a new method. The S, I've added it in. The Sans stands for selling. And this is what a lot of people don't have a lot of experience of. They can go away and do a time study, all right. They'll struggle to sell it. And what I mean by selling is by fronting up a management team or a group of operators and saying, this is the time, etc. etc. We cover it a bit on the work measurement course. But on method study course, when you're going into a group of people and say, We're gonna change the method, this is the old method, and this is the new method. So that F has been added in, it's selling. And the I and the M is install the new method. How do we install it? And then the M is maintaining the new method. Because what we tend to do in the modern world, we'll go away and do some word measurement. And I guess if we did some proper method study for a client, we'd present it, then they go away and install and maintain it. But we would on the course we teach our people how to do it. So when we've got the course, we do a hard day of theory. It's about a 40-50 slide first day. After that, it's all practical. And we've run two courses now, and it's it's designed for people really who are already qualified industrial engineers. And the feedback that I've had from the majority of people on the course has been something like Phil, it's been a game changer because this has changed me a little bit from being a clockbasher to somebody who's actually now going to really look at the method. And I was saying, well, you can do that all the time. You know, you might be trained in MTM, but method study is very easy because when you present it, you present it as a chart, you use the ASMI symbols, and everybody understands them, don't they? And it's relatively quick. So on the last project that we've done, we've we're still running it actually. So we've just been out to we're going out to six countries, we're in the middle of it, six countries, uh, for a client, a retail client. Two of our oper two of our analysts have come back and said, Phil, I could do with a couple of hours, not timing. I've got a great idea. I want to use method study. Am I okay to do it? And we're giving them time to do it. It's just adding more value. But basically, method study, it's a standalone technique, it's a technique on its own.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

And it's a technique for analyzing processes and learning how to make them better and install new processes, is it?

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Yeah, and by and not spending any money, not using capital expenditure to do it, it's about getting the most of what you've got.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

And so this sounds uh kind of like the perfect complement to the work study course, because if you're interested in productivity, you can learn how to how to measure processes, and this one helps you redesign that. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Yeah, I'd say so. And then and then present it back with that sell, James. It's not we can all go and do time studies and sound plane, and a lot, I think a lot of our listeners, listeners, this will resonate. We can all go and do it. The tricky bit is when you're in front of people and you've got to tell them the time used to be this, we've done some method study, the time is now this, and this is how we've done it. So there's a bit of an art in it. So during the course, a lot of the people who've been on it, I think we've we've had 17, 18 on it. They're not used to doing that selling bit, that persuasive selling bit. So we've done a lot of role play where they've got better at it, they've got better at it and enjoyed it, you know. Yeah, not enough to study.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

And that is a theme I've heard kind of both of you talk about now, is kind of this is really not just about um theoretical learning, there's a lot of practice, because practice makes perfect. That's great. Thank you, Phil. And um, so there is that's not it. So if that wasn't enough, we you can now learn about productivity in general

Workload Modelling For Decisions

SPEAKER_01 27:38

in your introduction to productivity course. You can learn to be an industrial engineer with our work study course, and you can learn about method study and how to redesign and sell new new methods um within your organization. But there's another area in which we have we have seen perhaps organizations would help from a bit more support and a bit more training, and that is because one of the things that happens with the the times that we measure is that organizations use them to do uh labour workload planning. And that is when I was first introduced to it, my my observation was, oh, look, it's a big Excel spreadsheet with lots of calculations in it, and that was both uh that was underselling it massively because there's an awful lot that goes into workload modeling. And so we have designed a course to help help people in organizations understand that in more detail as well. Can you tell me a bit about that? Like what what is workload modelling and why have we launched this course?

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Or it can be a spreadsheet that helps you understand how much labour you need to put in a particular location to do all the work that they have to do. So whether that's serving customers, whether it's moving stock in a warehouse, you know, whatever it is. So it's it's a bottom-up budget that's built based on the amount of work that the team have to do, as opposed to people just being given a random number from from head office that they just have to work around. So it's this this bottom-up budget. So it is very practical and detailed. However, a workload model is also a really important strategic tool that any business can use. Because once you've got that bottom-up model, it's not only brilliant for each individual location. At a company-wide level, you can then say actually, how much time are we spending perhaps putting stock to the shelf, or how much time are we spending with customers, or whereabouts are we spending perhaps more time than we'd like to as a business. So it gives you a tool that allows you to understand where your money is actually being spent. And it's also brilliant if you want to make any of those productivity changes that you might have come up with from being on our introduction to productivity course, but it you can then run those through your model and it allows you to get a proper costed benefit for any different change that you want to make. And that's important because you can put a lot of effort into a change. If it doesn't really drive a significant value through the modelling, then obviously it's not a good one to do. And there can be reasons why that happens, you know, things that perhaps only free up very small slivers of time, they perhaps can't be realized. So, you know, if it frees up five seconds every 30 seconds, unless you can crunch that work differently, you might not be able to save those five seconds, they just become free time to watch. Or it might be that a lot of businesses will have minimum cover rules. So for security reasons, they'll not want to have fewer than two people in the location when it's open, for example. If you've got a lot of your places that work on those rules, if you take out work, you might find you can't save any money because there isn't any you can't take fewer people and you can't have fewer people than two. So the tool is really helpful for strategically understanding where your money is spent and being able to shape. So if you've got some flexibility in your budget and you want to decide which places do I really need to invest in because I've got more growth, it allows you to make those sorts of decisions too. So the course is really to help people both understand the nuts and bolts of the model, but also to get into some of those more strategic things about how we use it as a tool to make good business decisions.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Fantastic. So I mean it it sounds amazing, Sue, because it's yeah, I I really undersold it when I said it's just a a big XL. Like there's there's obviously a lot more to workload modeling here, and you know, enables you to strategically think about where you're spending your money to come up with uh costed benefits for some of the things you're planning to introduce. And I presume I've I've seen people talk about using it for scenario planning as well. What if what if we could shave 10 seconds off this process or or do this twice twice as fast and so on? Kind of it really helps them think about what's what's possible. Like who who's gonna come on this course and who's gonna benefit from it then? Who's gonna benefit from learning about workload modelling?

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Again, anybody that's joining a team that's going to look at workload modelling or would like a refresher, I think it's also good for line managers of people, of teams that are doing that that sort of workload modelling. Very often, workload model teams is a small little group that nobody talks too much and they just kind of seem to you know crutch numbers up the corner. To get into that piece around how we use it as a strategic tool, I think it's really useful for line managers too.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

That's fantastic, thank you. And I know you are speaking from experience of working in organizations here in productivity teams and working with people who manage workload models. I mean, you know from experience here that this can make a huge difference.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Yes, and again, it comes from having you know done that, those sorts of roles. So it's some of the things that if you're doing it yourself, it can take a long time to learn these things. So hopefully our courses, both this and the introduction to productivity ones, will give people some shortcuts to that learning, but otherwise it can take you a long time to learn.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

And what I love about these courses is well, I think what where Phil's talks about work study and method study, these can be applicable to anybody who wants to help their organization be more productive or learn more about how to be more productive. But the introduction to productivity course, the uh workload modeling course, these aren't courses that we want millions of people to sign up to sign up to, and we're planning to kind of launch bite-sized online learning things. These are really niche courses for people entering a situation where we know there isn't a lot of training for them. We're not going to make loads of money off these courses, but we are going to help people do a better job with productivity, and we're going to help people be more strategic, we're going to help people be more effective. And I really love I really love that because these are these are courses that have years and years of experience poured into them to try and help people be better at their at their at their jobs. This isn't just stuff that's been pushed together so people can can sign up to some online learning thing and not get anything from it. People coming out of these courses will will be behaving differently in their organizations and making a real difference from from day zero. So I really love that. So in summary, Rethink Productivity have been running work

Course Roundup And Where To Go

SPEAKER_01 34:48

study courses for a number of years, partly for training our internal teams, but also to help others be more productive, want to help their businesses be more productive. We have expanded that portfolio of courses because we are we want to help people be more productive. We want to help people do a better job with the productivity information they have in them in their businesses, and we want to make people's lives um better. So we've distilled our experience down into four courses. So the work study course, which is a two-week practical course that Phil is our lead tutor on, and that will change the way you look at work measurement. We've got the method study course. So anybody that wants to think about how their how their processes work and how to improve them, this is a general course. I think it's a week long, isn't it, Phil? Yeah, week long. Week long course that will practically show you how to evaluate processes, make them better, and more importantly, sell them in, implement them and maintain them in your organization. The intro to productivity course, if you're new to a productivity team or leading a productivity team, this is one for you because it was going distills many years of practical experience down into two days that will enable you to do your job better. And the workload modeling course for those specific situations where you want to understand how to strategically evaluate where your organization spends its money, do that more effectively, and learn how to build workload models. That is the course for you. All of these can be found, I think, on our on our website. Simon, could you tell us a bit more about where to go and and how to learn about these courses and kind of conclude the episode, please?

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Sure. Thank you, Sue. Thank you, James, thank you, Phil. All the info we'll put in the show notes, so links through, and there's dedicated information under the the Rethink Academy on the website, which has got dates for courses, inquiries, and then as Phil and Sue talk through some of the bullet points around why it's important and what type of people would benefit from attending. So I will put all that information there. And thanks again, everyone. We'll catch up on the next episode.