ReThink Productivity Podcast
In this exciting podcast, Simon Hedaux from ReThink Productivity shares his insights and strategies for improving productivity and efficiency in the retail and hospitality industries. With the help of clients, partners, and the ReThink team, Simon covers everything from measuring and tracking productivity to developing and implementing effective strategies.
Whether you're a business owner, manager, or employee, this podcast is a must-listen for anyone who wants to learn how to get more done and improve their bottom line.
Here's what you can expect to learn:
- How to measure and track productivity
- Proven strategies for improving efficiency and reducing waste
- How to create a culture of productivity and innovation
- Tips for motivating and engaging your team
- Real-world examples of how other businesses have used ReThink Productivity to achieve success
Don't miss out on this opportunity to learn from the experts and get ahead of the curve with your own business.
ReThink Productivity Podcast
Transforming Workplaces: Embracing Neuro Leadership
Discover the secret to making businesses more human with Chin Teik, a renowned Senior Executive and Neuro Leadership Coach. Chin passionately challenges the status quo of robotic work environments, urging leaders to embrace the science of Neuro Leadership to drive genuine transformation rather than mere change. Learn how understanding the brain can help prioritize tasks, form new habits, and establish supportive systems to create a more human-centric workplace. This enlightening conversation explores the pitfalls of being "busy for nothing" and equips leaders with strategies to lead meaningful change
Podcast and YouTube channels:
#theproductivityexperts
Register for the 2025 Productivity Forum
Find us in the Top 50 Productivity Podcasts
Connect to Simon on LinkedIn
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Welcome to the Rethink Productivity podcast. Today, I'm delighted to be joined by Chin Tech Senior Executive and Euro Leadership Coach. Hi, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm good, Simon. Thank you very much for the intro.
Speaker 1:No, no problem, Great to have you on the podcast and thanks for taking the time out. So we're going to have a really interesting chat today around how busy people are, why that might be all those kind of indicators that go with it. But do you want to tell us a bit about yourself first, Chin, your career background and how you got to do your kind of neuroleadership coaching?
Speaker 2:Okay, I will Thanks, simon. So my name is Chin Teh. I'm a Senior Executive, neuroleadership Coach and action learning facilitator, business process consultant. My purpose in life is to make immediate and multiply impact on people I care about and work with. What is neuroleadership? Neuroleadership is using science to transform how people lead and manage self lead and manage others, lead, manage organization. My vision is equipping leaders and managers with the understanding of the brain to make organizations more human how to make better decisions, how to solve problems more effectively and, more importantly, how to lead scalable change, especially around culture. My vision, simon, is to make using science to make organizations more human.
Speaker 1:When you say more human, what does that imply? That we're not, or we that these general organizations are more robotic?
Speaker 2:Yes, you know, I often say this to my clients. I say I'm amazed as to how we forget that we're humans. You know, when I was growing up, there was this advert called the Duracell Battery, where they have this. You're familiar with that right the Duracell Bunny, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so your bunny keeps going around and around and around and never stopping right. And that's how I see organizations. We've forgotten that we're humans. We've forgotten how the brains actually get tired right, and employees and managers, everybody's just working like they're robots. And so my vision is trying to equip leaders and managers to pause, to understand how the brain really works and to appreciate it, and to give people time to breathe. Give people time to pause.
Speaker 1:And you also mentioned in your kind of opening piece around scalable change, so that that feels like something that you know well as a world where we're changing all the time. We've come through the pandemic. We've got various unfortunately wars going on. We've got big um electoral change in the uk, potentially big electoral change coming up in the next couple of weeks in the States. Then in work, everything seems to be changing all the time for people just to almost keep their head above water. So is that something we're getting used to, or is that something that's new to us? Or has it always been there and we're just trying to do more with less people?
Speaker 2:I. I think that, uh, sorry. My observation, simon, is that I see often, uh, leaders, managers at a senior level, talk about use the word transformation, uh, and they do it interchangeably with change. But many people forget the difference between change and transformation. Change Change is fixing the past, right, tweaking some things to make it better, right. Transformation is a whole new state, and I see very few organizations really knowing how to do transformations. They do tons of change, but I'm sure you've seen this as well, simon the change doesn't get sustained, right, the change one day and then the next day people forget about it or people cannot implement it through, and then they forget about it. Then they start all over again.
Speaker 2:So when I speak about leading scalable change, so when I speak about leading scalable change, it is about sustainable, scalable change, which is around, again, the brain is. How do we have people know, with all that noise in their head, like you said, right, simon, that the world is just crazily noisy, right? There's so many things going on and the only way that we can lead scalable change is using the term PHS Priority, habits and System. People need to know what is the number one priority or number two priority. People need to know what is the habit that needs to change, that there needs to be a system that reinforces the change, and what I see often is that those three things are often missed out. People do the drum rolls, people make a lot of noise, but they don't talk about the specific change in habit. Number two is they don't have systems to reinforce the change.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting because probably, like you've just described, transformation is always one of those words that makes me shudder a little bit. Um, unfortunately, lots of people have it in their job title now, but for me, yeah, transformation is going from one state to another state and, um, it's big, it's not chipping away at it. Lots of people do I kind of use evolution and revolution. Lots of people do evolution.
Speaker 1:So they evolve slowly over time. They don't um have a revolution of one state to another in a short space of time, which, in effect, is your transformational cycle. Um, so people are too busy, is the the general feeling, isn't it? But too too busy doing what?
Speaker 2:too busy. The term I use is busy for nothing, bfn. Uh, people are just too busy and people are not focused. Um, people, uh, you know, one of the things that I I see a lot happening is very unclear communication of expectations number one. Number two is there's this language issue. Everybody, for some reason, their language is task, not outcomes, and that's why I say it's busy for nothing.
Speaker 1:I can be busy for 1,500 hours and yet not achieve the right outcome and when you say busy with, busy with task, you're probably going to answer it. But yeah that that's because we're used to, as leaders, telling people what to do or focusing on the short term uh, few things.
Speaker 2:Number one is there's a difference within the language. Task is usually associated with managers, simon, and one of the things I speak a lot about is that we have what we call accidental managers. We promote individual contributors who are very focused on the how, not the what necessarily, and then we make the managers we don't train them, and so they bring along with them from individual contributor language to the manager language and they always focus on the how, right. Very few times, you see, a lot of people understand the why to the how, so everybody's just how and how and how and how, and not necessarily understanding the why or the outcome we're trying to accomplish with the how. That's one. Two is outcomes are typically the language of leaders, right. However, again, because we're all accidental, that is something that has not been equipped. As we transition individual contributors to become people, managers or leaders, so they carry that language with them, simon. And then number two is it just gets multiplied down the organization, so it becomes an organizational culture of tasks, not necessarily outcomes tasks not necessarily outcomes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense and that leads, I suppose, quite nicely into the metrics you use to measure. That does it so if it's a leading metric or a lagging metric.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we call it the leading indicator, simon. Leading indicators are basically, you know let me step back. Organizations today are over-focused on lack, and lack is too late. The principle that data is 24 hours late is useless, because we cannot make up for the time lost Lack outcomes are.
Speaker 1:I suppose they'll argue, though, that you can learn from history. Is that right? Is that why they use those metrics?
Speaker 2:They can learn from history and what you see often in organizations when you sit in Simon, they'll do the typical quarterly operations review and every time they're going to say we kind of missed here, we kind of screwed up here. And then if you sit the next quarter they're going to say oh, we kind of missed here, we kind of screwed up here. And then if you sit the next quarter they're going to say the same thing. It's so much waste, right? However, leading indicators here's a different assignment. Well, a lead measure tells you if you've achieved the goal. A lead measure tells you if you're likely to achieve the goal. So it's predictive, right. Lead measures allow you to shift the focus from the rear view perspective of how did I do? A month a quarter a year later, again too late, a month a quarter a year later, again too late to the current and actionable view of how am I doing and to me it should be by the hour. That truly fuels execution.
Speaker 1:And lots of organizations will focus on things like sales. So I sold X pairs of jeans today and my target was Y tick the box or I didn't sell as many. Well, we didn't sell as many because it was raining it was too expensive, the competitor had a sale, whatever it might be so how do you switch that mindset?
Speaker 2:We switch that mindset by a few things. I call it the keeping performance on track framework, simon, and it has one requirement and two elements. The one requirement is disciplined leadership. Leaders need to be very disciplined in following through you and I have seen many leaders have a thousand ideas. They throw it into organization. They don't follow it through.
Speaker 2:The joke I used to hear from employees is this, simon, they'll say to me and say, jin-taek, you know, one of the ways that I manage up is my manager will come to me and give me 10 great ideas a day, right, and what we do is we just wait, we just wait until the manager remembers that one idea out of a hundred, then we'll start working on it. Yeah, sounds familiar. And so discipline leadership is really about that self-discipline. To lean into the resistance and emotions right, it's to stay very temperate and not get, you know, hijacked by emotions. Stay focused, stay on a process, ensure systems are in place, ensure there's a follow-through, right. So the discipline issue is very important, so that we don't argue about the rainy weather, argue about hey, you know, there's something going on and we're all distracted.
Speaker 2:So that discipline leadership the two elements that will require execution and keeping performance on track is what the second element, the first element, sorry, is called the breakthrough performance, and a breakthrough performance has three habits. The first habit is back to leading indicators, executing on leading indicators to achieve black outcomes. Now comes the most important habit, simon self-monitoring performance feedback, and it's going to be visual. And the third element is that. The third habit is that if I'm on the second habit of visually self-monitoring my targets, by the hour I, the employee or the individual contributor, will know when I am off track. Today, often, when you walk the organization, many people don't know where they are in their performance, many and so by the time they figure out based on lack outcomes, it is way too late. So, with a visual self-monitoring performance feedback, people are tracking themselves, just like your smartwatch, right? You know how many steps you've taken and you realize that you're missing 2,000 steps. You make up for it, right? So it's the same principle.
Speaker 1:And that then focuses people to work smarter, not just longer hours or take on more bits.
Speaker 2:Correct. Then the second element there's a discipline, leadership requirement, two elements. The first element is breakthrough performance. Then we need a second element, which is the culture of execution. I call it the habits of execution. And today, simon, what I see happening is let's take a simple thing called problem solving right. One of the things that I do a lot with people is I'm in a room with 25 people and I say everybody, write for me the steps you take in problem solving. And guess what, simon? It ranges from two steps to 10 steps. Nobody is on the same structure, nobody's on the same language. So how do people work effectively in teams when they're not using the same structure? Yeah Right, yeah right. And so what I teach people is we've got to have, we've got to have habits, which needs to be transferable, repeatable and predictable. So they need to be in structured frameworks with methodologies that we need to teach every single employee, so when they're trying to problem solve with two other colleagues, they are on the same page.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot around getting a solid platform for people to be almost talking the same language, understanding the same boundaries, working to the same principles, and then, once people are in that state, what kind of breakthroughs do you see?
Speaker 2:well, I'll give. I'll give an example uh, when I was in the factory, uh, we did this with uh manufacturing operators who had like six years of education. Uh, many of them don't speak english. This is the factory in penang, malaysia, and we did this program where, first, we equipped every single manufacturing operator to understand the difference between poor quality and good quality. Number two is that we began to teach them how to work effectively and efficiently in the workspace, in terms of the whole science of how they work, workspace, in terms of the whole science of how they work. And then, in front of every operator, we gave them a P&Q chart, productivity and quality chart, and then we taught them how to visually track themselves. And they did that by every hour.
Speaker 2:Now here comes the big, important part the production supervisor was taught that they have to walk the floor very regularly, they have to check on everybody's work, especially the tracking, and the only role that they must play is to give positive feedback. They cannot give negative feedback to those who are not hitting the target. They only give it to the people who hit the target. Very lovely, specific, positive, pure feedback. And guess what happens, simon, the people who heard the feedback. And guess what happened, simon? The people who heard the feedback, who are not on target, worked harder to achieve target. Secondly, by the end of the first week we already increased our productivity by 50%, reduced defects by 35% deals defects by 35%.
Speaker 1:So lots of upside from a productivity point of view, better quality for the customer and clearly more capacity for colleagues if needed.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the principle, simon, is that, you know, the idea of the person who's producing is the person who is self-inspecting. Right Today, there are many instances where people who do the work don't inspect their work. It's passed down the line to someone else to inspect the work and by the time they discover the defect, it's too late and it's too expensive.
Speaker 1:So there's a big element here of self-management and all this isn't there in the in the self-evaluation piece of taking ownership of of your work yes, pride, right, pride taking ownership of the work, uh, and basically self-discipline and did some leaders struggle with that because they feel like they're losing autonomy?
Speaker 2:in. In the initial period, yes, but eventually, when they saw the results, they cannot help but saying hey, this works man.
Speaker 1:And it must make their life easier because again back to the initial part of the conversation they'll be busy doing lots of things, so the fact that they've got teams that are empowered to self-check and self-rectify to a degree must then flow upstream to them.
Speaker 2:Yes, one of the things I use a lot is giving people time back. If we can reduce rework, if we can reduce poor quality, if we can reduce better time management, if we can reduce better time management, if we can reduce, you know, useless meetings with no agenda that runs for hours, the idea is to give people time back.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, it's one of the most valuable gifts you can give somebody, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So I think you've got one more thing you'd like to share.
Speaker 2:Yes, simon, one of the biggest challenges with people working people are very busy and running around is the thing called biases. We have 155 unconscious biases, and what the Neuro Leadership Institute has done is to summarize the 155 biases into the word called SEEDS. Seeds stand for similarity, okay, experience, distance and safety, and let me unpack that so that the listeners can be more aware of it. I think it's a very useful tool that can be used to pause and have people think and be able to overcome the biases. Similarity bias is a tendency to view people who look or think like us more favorably than people who are different. Experienced bias is a tendency to rush to conclusions in an effort to minimize cognitive effort. Experienced bias is a tendency to believe that how we see the world is inherently truer than someone else's perspective. Distance bias the tendency to assign greater value to those things that we perceive to be closer to us rather than further away. Safety bias the tendency to over-account for negative outcomes instead of positive ones. Simon, these biases, especially the experience bias and expedient bias especially expedient bias people are running around really busily, you know. Busy for nothing is because of that expedient bias I see so often in organizations. The experienced bias is again accounting for why people do what they do because they think whatever they see is truth, right and nothing comes inside. The safety bias is the one that basically allows for people to not be able to say no, one of the reasons for the busyness.
Speaker 2:I call it the vicious cycle of yes. Everybody is saying yes to really too many things. They don't know how to say no Managers, middle managers included because they don't want to be seen as someone not committed or they don't want to be seen as someone not having the capacity to do more. I call it the vicious cycle of yes. And what we need more, simon, is to teach organizations the power of no done correctly, not to stop organizations from functioning, but being more clear about what to focus on in terms of execution and seeds is one of the biggest contributors to why people are so busy and people not being able to negotiate for deadlines, people not being able to take things off the plate, and one of the things I'm teaching organization is the act of subtracting. Today, we're adding and adding and adding. We need to learn how to subtract, simon. Take things off people's plates.
Speaker 1:Back to the age-old. Less is more.
Speaker 2:Yes, easier said than done, but absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Everybody's priorities are more important than everybody else in there. And you get back to those competing priorities in large organizations and, yeah, you're right. There are lots of times when I suppose we all reflect and think, yeah, I knew at the time I probably should have said no or push back and yeah, challenge the timeline, but for whatever reason you didn't yeah, I hear so often.
Speaker 2:You know people tell me I don't think, I don't think the CEO will allow us to negotiate, I don't think the CEO will allow us to say no. And I said seriously yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Then some of some of that's, like you say, the bias or the, the pre-pre-conditioned ideas that have come through from history correct so.
Speaker 2:so my recommendation is organizations should embrace the fact that we do have this unconscious bias and organizations should actually use this language. So, for example, simon, you and I can be in a meeting and then, all of a sudden, because we have agreed to use the language of Cs, I can go hey, simon, I just observed you're kind of on your experience bias, and then, bam, simon just stops and says oh yeah, you're right, I'm really sticking to my truth and I need to listen to other people's truth. So it's very powerful for us to embrace it and then for us to use it. Right, that's what I wanted to share.
Speaker 1:Perfect, good advice. And again, hopefully people can take that in their day-to-day and will reach out if they want to find out more. We'll pause there because I'm sure we could talk for a lot longer about all of the various examples and ways of working. If people have been inspired by this conversation, it's kind of sparked some interest. Where's the best place for them to find you, chin?
Speaker 2:On my email and on my LinkedIn, as well as my podcast and YouTube channels.
Speaker 1:Perfect, so we'll put a link to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes so people can click through and then find all the other information there for you. It's been an absolute pleasure to chat. Really interesting episodes made me think about doing a few things differently as well. So I really appreciate your time and we'll catch up soon.
Speaker 2:Hey Simon.
