Shaping Organizational Productivity through Strategic Workforce Planning

Embark on a journey into the heart of strategic workforce planning as we discuss with Nick Kennedy, the Workforce Planning Institute chairman, how the art of predicting and shaping the future workforce can transform organizational productivity. Nick illuminates the differences between operational workforce management and the foresight necessary for crafting long-term strategic plans

Nick shares insights on the delicate balance between setting a strategic direction that guides like a compass through the shifting economic landscape, rather than prescribing a rigid roadmap. We also take a global tour of the must-attend events for those eager to network and deepen their expertise in strategic workforce planning, from the Workforce Planning Institute

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to the Productivity Podcast. Today, I'm delighted to be joined by Nick Kennedy, chair of the Workforce Planning Institute. Hi, nick, how are you?

Speaker 2: 0:14

Hey, simon, I'm great Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 0:17

No, thanks for it's evening. Isn't it so that your accent gives away that you might not be in the UK?

Speaker 2: 0:25

I am, as we talked about, off camera. I'm basking in 27 degree heat at 8pm at night in Melbourne.

Speaker 1: 0:33

And I'm basking in wind and rain at just after 9am in a not so sunny UK. So yeah, polls apart, as I said to you, I think you've got the better end of the deal.

Speaker 2: 0:44

Indeed.

Speaker 1: 0:46

So, nick, I appreciate you taking the time out and we're going to have an interesting conversation today, I think, about strategic workforce planning. But before we get into that, do you want to give us a kind of quick biog of what you've done in your career and how you got to be chair at the Workforce Planning Institute?

Speaker 2: 1:03

Yeah, absolutely so. I started life as a mechanical engineer and I worked across a couple of different industry sectors for a few years so metals, mining, processing and automotive. For a little bit. I moved into recruitment after that. I really wasn't getting the people interaction sort of side of my role.

Speaker 2: 1:26

I went six years in agency recruitment and then went in house for a little while and worked for a company called Newcrest Mining as an internal recruiter and they cottoned on to the fact that I was an engineer and could do other stuff, so they moved me around a little bit. So I got an opportunity to work in sort of the lean and six sigma space so business improvement, operational excellence for a couple of years. And I moved into this thing called workforce planning which back at the time was really sorting the numbers out. It was helping the organization understand how to accurately count the workforce, start reporting on it, and then we started to leverage some business insights. From there I got to the point where I was either faced with becoming a mining person for my career or continuing the analytical HR space.

Speaker 2: 2:19

I really enjoyed that. I went to work for a small consulting firm for a year or so before setting up for myself. I've been running an advisory firm in and around strategic workforce planning for the last 12 or 13 years now and along the way I identified an opportunity to do something more as an advocacy body for workforce planning professionals, just identifying the fact that strategic workforce planning was a much needed and rapidly growing profession, but it had none of the underlying support mechanisms and infrastructure, those sorts of things. So I got involved in the institute to help address that gap and I've been running that for for the last five years and really, really enjoy it.

Speaker 1: 3:12

Amazing. So yeah, mining background through to kind of analytics, data and planning. So we talk a lot on this podcast about workforce management. So I suppose the the end result the short term, three, four, five, six weeks out of demand the curve and then plotting people against it by shifts, clocking them in and out so we pay them correctly. How does that differ from strategic workforce planning?

Speaker 2: 3:43

I think it's um. It differs across a few key areas and we certainly consider operational workforce planning and resource management as a subset, as a sub component or even an output of strategic workforce planning. But I think that the first point of difference is the time horizon. So a strategic workforce plan, as I'm looking, you know, well out beyond the, the 18 month horizon and depending on their organization in their industry sector, that could be three, five years, it could be 10 years plus, or even in some of the the industries like defence and government, we see them looking out 30, 40, 50 years at times. So I would say that time frame, especially sort of, you know, the, the one that you highlighted would be, would be one of our key points of difference.

Speaker 2: 4:36

I think also, strategic workforce planning tends to cast the net a lot wider in terms of the facets and the aspects of it considered. So, moving beyond deployment, beyond workforce allocation, beyond workforce management, strategic workforce planners are still very much interested in in the numbers and the costs, but then they're also interested in a broader suite of things, including skills capability. You know how we grow and train our workforce, you know all of the different approaches to supplementing workforce demand, so they'll tend to look beyond. Okay, a person or a human in the traditional sense is always used and is always employed to deliver the work. So strategic workforce planners can at times rethink the work. They can at times look at different models to get that work delivered. You know how they might need to skill or train their workforce, look after their workforce, you pay their workforce, so it brings in a whole lot of those ava-leavers that that perhaps isn't. Isn't sort of the first. The first consideration of the first sort of thing like lost during and deployment.

Speaker 1: 5:56

Yeah, okay, that makes sense and that must be a real challenge. Then, when organizations are kind of focusing on productivity, does that have a positive or negative impact on your kind of strategic initiatives, especially in a world where we've got dynamic workforce? You know things like AI coming at us quickly that we don't really know, I think, at this point how that's going to impact the workforce, but we think it's going to do some of some stuff for us.

Speaker 2: 6:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:25

I think, it can have a positive effect and it can have a negative effect. So if I start on the perhaps they're not so positive side of it, you know I've been into a lot of organizations over the years where I'm sitting down explaining what strategic workforce planning is and why it's beneficial and why we should do it, and the first question is what's? What's the 12 month return on investment for the activity? So when we're in an organization that is used to driving cost out, that's used to seeing tangible outcomes within short time frames, measurable outcomes, you know, very focused on productivity. So you know industries like mining, industries like manufacturing, it's it's not always an easy sell because you're not going to realize that benefit until a number of years down the track. And even then you're probably not gonna sit there and say, hey, we got this right. Now you're gonna get a really rude shock if you don't get it right because you won't have talent in place and skills and you won't have moved with the shifting macroeconomic environment to change your business and change your workforce.

Speaker 2: 7:42

So that can be a challenge when we've got individuals who are operating in a lean, agile, traditional type environment where that we're shaving costs off of this activity and that activity. So I think the challenge is understanding how they work together. But a number of the other trends and patterns that you mentioned, like AI, machine learning some of these concepts are already starting to significantly transform how we do work, how we deliver work and what the effort is required to get that done. So that's a game changer for a strategic workforce planner who might look at I don't know an activity like coding, for example, where they may have had a pretty classic rule of thumb way of allocating developers against projects of a given size. That's all changing with the introduction of co-pilots and leveraging generative AI to develop code. So in some aspects it can be a frustration, but in others it's absolutely something that we're embracing, that we need, that we love and that strategic workforce planners genuinely believe will make their role, as it will enable them to do what they do best in the future.

Speaker 1: 9:18

Is it hard to strike that balance? Do the teams need to kind of coexist and work together in that long-term, medium and short-term?

Speaker 2: 9:27

Yeah, I think so, and I think that there are some iterative loops that require feedback.

Speaker 2: 9:35

So when we're looking at the short-term and sometimes even the medium-term teams, they're the ones who have the best view and understanding of the current issues at the coalface and we can't ignore those. But we need to understand whether they're likely to be issues two, three, four, five years down the track with the way things are changing and evolving, so that strategic workforce planners aren't trying to solve problems in the future that will no longer be issues and challenges. So I think they can create a really valuable, a really valuable information loop in terms of hey, here's what we're seeing, here's what's going on, and certainly feed that into the process, feed that into the considerations and start to plan around ways to avoid those traps in the future.

Speaker 1: 10:31

Because I mean the whole work-life balance thing certainly in Europe shifted. It was shifting, as probably shifted further since COVID, in terms of still majority of people don't go back to the office every day. We've still got clearly front-line workers. But then you've got the generational changes as well in terms of what people are looking for for an employer, the benefits that may be more around the softer side rather than just cash. So all those things go into the mix as well.

Speaker 2: 11:04

Yeah, absolutely, and work is changing. I've seen some data recently. I think it was produced by a gentleman by the name of Adam Gibson for me why who's a living legend among strategic workforce planners. It looked at the employee view of how things were shifting, particularly in relation to January VAI and the employer's view. For me, that was synonymous of the difference in expectations.

Speaker 2: 11:35

At the moment, I still see organisations leadership management, if you will wanting or needing staff to do some time connected in the office, to do some time, whether it's under a watchful eye, for that reason or whether it's for other reasons coming back in and delivering work. And yet I'm seeing staff more and more want to continue to work in that environment that they have become used to. And that's the environment where, if I want to start at seven and I want to take two hours off in the middle of the day to do some training or to have a nap or to do a school pick up and drop off, and then I want to log back on at various intervals of the day and as long as I'm there for those hard meetings that are in my diary, that was okay for a long time and I think we haven't properly leveraged that as a planet yet and said, okay, well, perhaps you can work like that, perhaps we can shift our definition of what a productive workforce looks like, because at the moment, we're still tethered to en masse and I'm generalising here. I understand that we're still tethered to the fact that a human works 38 hours a week, or part thereof. They're employed by an entity that is our company and for all intents and purposes, we deem that as them being within our sphere of influence and delivery kind of vehicle. But we don't need to work like that, and more and more I would love to see outcome focus roles.

Speaker 2: 13:27

So it's not possible for every role at this stage. So there are some roles that require available time nursing, policing, there are some sectors that will always need that. But so many roles could start to shift to a set of outcomes, as opposed to the input, as opposed to how much time or availability. So, rather than measure what someone is doing by, yes, how many hours they're putting in, okay, a few KPIs can we start to think about. You've got a fixed amount of work to deliver. We want you to deliver A, b, c and D, and you're empowered and entrusted to do that within a loose set of constraints as long as we get the outcomes that we're after. So I'd love to see shift in thinking of what workforce productivity looks like to something that's more outcome focused, and I think some organizations are starting to do it. But there's a real hesitation and I suspect there are some trust challenges that might be holding that up on mass.

Speaker 1: 14:43

Yeah, I like the concept and I think you're right it'll be. Yeah, so if you manage to do the work quicker, what did you do with the rest of your time? Which kind of goes against the ethos of outcome based, isn't it? As long as the outcomes are delivered on the correct time scales, to the right standard, should it matter it's taking you 50 hours that week, 45 or 60.

Speaker 2: 15:08

Exactly. And then we start to to get back to you know this challenging the iniquity that exists across traditional workforces. Employee X is a top performer. They get through a heck of a lot of work, they're fairly resilient, we can give them work and we know we're going to get it done. But employee Y, who sits next to employee X, isn't that individual. And was it fair that employee X is lumped with that amount of work? Not necessarily.

Speaker 2: 15:45

Now, employee X may want to deliver over and above and progress up the up the up the chain, so to speak, and I get that, but I still. I still think that we can address inequity by acknowledging that if you do do that work faster, then, hey, go and go for a walk with your favorite pet or your partner or your family, or go and do an activity that that does alleviate the challenges and the burdens that go hand in hand with working in traditional environments. Go and look after yourself, go and do something that allows you to switch off. Why can't we offer that? Why is it? Hey, you were super efficient.

Speaker 1: 16:33

Interesting point for people to think on. And how do you kind of join the loop so you talk before around? You know organizations that struggle with there's no immediate payback or particular cash value that's easy to access. The strategic stuff, as it says on the tin, is more around the longer term and setting the foundations. So how does that success get measured and then balanced against, I suppose, people trying to reduce costs with a productivity lens?

Speaker 2: 17:04

Yeah, it's kind of getting into the the broader area of how do we measure effective and productive strategic workforce playing. What is a from a holistic point of view, and that's very much the lens that SWP looks through. How do you know when you've got it right and how do you put in place? Can you boil it down to one number? And ultimately you generally can't, but we tend to look at a series of metrics that that help serve as yardsticks along the way, depending on the problem that the organization is trying to solve. So many organizations have a workforce profile that they would deem at greater risk because of the retirement landscape. Others might have challenging employee engagement results. Others might have excess sorry, not excess annually unscheduled absence that they they feel is, you know, is at a level that's acceptable and cost in the organization. So they could all be part of a SWP effectiveness dashboard. There are some others that I think are definitely worth looking at, and one's the effectiveness ratio of an organization, so you know the revenue per dollar spent to get the work done now, I won't say per dollar spent on the workforce, because that doesn't have to look like a traditional workforce any longer and another one that can be a good measure of whether you're investing in your people. If you, if you've got a traditional workforce, is it training effectiveness ratio, so the revenue of your organization per training dollar spent on on your workforce? So we can start to bring in some metrics that perhaps don't Don't zero in on exactly.

Speaker 2: 19:13

Yes, swp did this, this, this and this, and therefore it's effective to we know we're heading in the right direction and that's One of the generally accepted principles about strategic workforce planning, and I probably didn't highlight this when I delineated between operational and strategic. But this is not laser like accuracy that we're trying to achieve here. Strategic workforce planning gives the organization a Direction. It serves as the true north. X doesn't mark the spot. We know X is over there and that's where we're headed, and we will re forecast them, will reshift that as things change. And and the same needs to happen with your effectiveness measures. And are we still? Are we still measuring Whether we're productive and effective in it, in our workforce planning activity, in a manner that that you know is Accurate and is conducive to the right outcomes? If not, we need to shift. Shift those goalposts.

Speaker 1: 20:15

Got it, so really understanding what the business challenges are and then having some metrics around it, as well as the rider ones. But I think that the bigger point there is, if you don't know you're heading north, you could be adding west, east or even south, which is you know, yeah, and even worse place to be.

Speaker 2: 20:36

Exactly right and and as we've seen, you know, in in sort of the last five years or so now, I guess, the the economic climate, the environment we operate in can shift rapidly and it can Spin that boat around and have it heading in a in a southerly direction when you need to be going north. So you need to understand, you know what those forces are. You need to continue to Not only look at your strategy and make sure that it's still the right strategy and still refreshed, but you also need to understand what are the assumptions, constraints and influences that we're delivering that strategy under based on. You know the economic environment, the macroeconomic climate and what are some of the forces that might Pull us off course and how do we counter those. So I think having that refreshed cycle is is critical to Making sure your boat still pointing in the right direction Amazing brilliant, got it.

Speaker 1: 21:37

Nick really enjoyed the conversation. It's over my eyes to the the subtle differences and how these kind of things work in harmony. I know you do a couple of events across the world throughout the year. Do you want to just tell us a bit about those in case people are Listening are interested to attend?

Speaker 2: 21:51

Yeah, absolutely. So our broader event portfolio has grown Significantly over the over the last sort of year or two. So we work very closely with to kana global, who are our Global event partner, and and between to kana in the workforce planning Institute. We now deliver People analytics world events and SWP conference events globally. So we're heading to Zurich at the end of Feb for a Partnet event with Microsoft. So that's a smaller one-day conference which will be All around leveraging Gen A I To drive an influence, the employee experience. Then we head to London for people analytics world on April 24th and 25th and that's the main event On that that side of the platform for the year.

Speaker 2: 22:46

We've got SWP conference in the US in June. We've got an Amsterdam PA world event in September. We have our SWP conference London, which is the flagship SWP conference event, in November. That was a wonderful event last year and we're looking forward to having a brilliant one again. Then we're heading back to Sydney for our Asia pack event in December before we all have a Well-earned rest for the year. So the yeah, I miss, I missed people analytics world in New York in September as well. So we've got Events that really align to where most of our members most of our followers are, and we know it's not always easy for someone from Australia to fly to, you know, europe for a once a year conference. So we try and host medium-sized events in various hubs all around the world. So we're always keen to hear from speakers. We're always keen to hear from sponsors. We love giving people a voice in how their people analytics or strategic workforce planning peer groups at these events.

Speaker 1: 23:55

And if people want to find out more about those events, is there a website they can go to, or do they contact you through LinkedIn? How does that work?

Speaker 2: 24:01

Yeah, absolutely so. They're all sitting up on both the Workforce Planning Institute website and the Tocana Global and People Analytics World websites. So you know, just follow the links through from each of those and every event that is live at the moment will be up there. If you want information about an event that's not yet live, info at workforceplanninginstitutecom will get you a very, very quick response around what's coming in your part of the world.

Speaker 1: 24:34

Amazing. We'll put the links in the show notes so people can find those quickly. So just leaves me to say, nick, really appreciate your time, really jealous that you've got far better weather than we have in the UK at the moment, but hopefully that starts to switch out as you head out of somewhere and we enter into it and safe travels in your globe charting this year.

Speaker 2: 24:55

Thanks for having me, simon, and hopefully we can catch up when I'm in the UK next.

Speaker 1: 25:00

Absolutely Take care.

Speaker 2: 25:02

Cheers.